Two Big Egos in a Small Car
A passionately laid back overview of the arts and culture scene in York and Harrogate with observations on journalism. This podcast is hosted by Charles Hutchinson and Graham Chalmers and regular guests.
Two Big Egos in a Small Car
Episode 271: Interview Special with Daliso Chaponda;
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Interview special with comedian Daliso Chaponda.
Plus:
After Bone Temple's underwhelming performance at cinemas, do Danny Boyle and Alex Garland deserve the chance to complete the 28 Years Later trilogy?
Leeds Literature Festival returns but are there too many of these things?
Looking ahead to talking about Boston in the next Vinyl Sessions in Harrogate - not the city, by the way...
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Good evening, Delisho. Good evening. Good evening. And welcome. I thank you so much for joining us this evening. The first voice you heard there is Deliso Chaponda, the esteemed comedian, a bag full of things. Well, if I tell you that the two uh podcasters on uh two big egos and a small car, between us we've got around about 80 years experience in journalism and we're still alive. So uh so it's fascinating actually to hear a comedian's view on the state of news. Uh we've Graham and I have only ever worked on regional uh newspapers, uh as well as running the podcast. But obviously, uh Delito, this show looks at a far wider implications of where news coverage is going. And it's not a new topic to you from the point of view that you've written for uh more than a decade. Have I got news for you, BBC Radio 4, News Quiz, Australia's Good News Week. I wonder what Australia's bad news week is. I'd love to know what that was. Um so you're kind of steeped in news, and of course, you made news yourself in with the success with Britain's Got Talent as a finalist, where you find yourself suddenly sort of in the news by the success with that, and it kind of takes things in different directions and how you get treated. So um, welcome by the way, Graham, as well. But I the first thing to ask, um Delito is how you reached the point where this show, this topic, needed to be discussed.
SPEAKER_01Well, I definitely I've been writing satire about the news for around 10 years. I've been a comedian for around 20, but I think around 10 years ago, I started talking less about my love life and more about what's going on in the world. But even in just 10 years, it started to feel different. Yes. Okay. So on the one hand, there's a fact is can we even satirize a world where you've got a world leader? I don't know if you can swear, but he was saying F few people, F f you people, uh, but open the straight, or else praise Allah. Like kind of an absurd thing that if I had 10 years ago written this character in a play, people would have said, come on, this is ludicrous. Like it's it's absolutely sometimes beyond satire, not just over the the pond. In the UK, just um this weekend, there've been demonstrations, and when you look at some of the things that go on in these demonstrations, it's getting more and more absurd. So there was that, but then even amid that, you've got fake articles in my WhatsApp group with my family. My mother constantly is sharing with terror some article which she's been sent, and we have to explain to her, no, that's not real. And she's like, What? It look, it's a newspaper. And it's like, no, digitally, it's so easy now to generate um well, you know, artificial news and so much of it, algorithms, right? Algorithms sending me news that just confirms whatever I already believe. So there's so many aspects that I felt consistently were coming up in conversation that I was like, I need to do a show that's about the news, not necessarily about the news stories about the day, but the bigger ideas of news and journalism, and is it pointless? And yes, what what what what how do we even relate to a world where you're not sure what's real and not?
SPEAKER_00Well, I I seem to think that uh in the days long ago when people thought the world was flat, it wasn't that everybody actually thought the world was flat, it was that everybody in power told them the world was flat.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, that's entirely true. And I actually think this is a problem also now, is that there are a lot of insane narratives. So, one of the ones I talk about is I I really get uh up close and personal with the great replacement theory, right? And you hear things like Bradford has fallen. Um, I saw someone in America talking about how the UK is under Sharia law, and when I did the Bradford Ahambra theater, outside the theater, there were women with penises on their head on a hindu. And I was like, this is a very lax version of Sharia law. And that's so much of my humor is looking at what you read and what you see, and it's not the same reality.
SPEAKER_00No, right, yeah. When you you first came to fame, well, to me at least in 2017, up through Britain's Got Talent, and and I saw the show, and it was very no-holds barred, and it dealt with real subjects in a very honest, precise way. And you could see the panel of judges looking a bit shocked, but all you were doing really was telling the truth.
SPEAKER_01Yes, also, I had done these jokes in comedy clubs across the UK for years. So even though the actual producers of the show, some of them were like, I'm not sure about that joke, oh, I don't know, and they were very worried. I was like, Look, I have been road testing canary in the coal mine in front of a hindu in buttons in the most varied audiences. These jokes work, so it was more kind of calming them down and just saying, let me give it a shot. If it goes badly, they'll buzz me off. But I was sure just because I had done jokes in front of British people, there was only one joke I was told not to do, and I did anyway because the semifinal was live. So the only one where um not a producer, just like um, there's a you have a person assigned to you who gives you advice, and she said to me that the joke where I said uh 200 years ago to a white audience, 200 years ago this would have been an auction. They felt, uh, this is a bit too adult subject matter, a little too negative for such a positive show. And I just said yes, knowing that I had done it all over the UK, it had always worked. So in the final, I just accidentally did it. But everything else was planned. But that one I was like, Well, you can't stop me, it's live.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Delisa, do you collect? Um, I mean, the the the principle here, uh, headlines have become so absurd, chaotic, and overwhelming that started to mock themselves. Have you compiled headlines that that would make you feel like that? Or is it just an overall feeling that you get from the massive headlines that make you feel that they've started to mock themselves and they have become overwhelming?
SPEAKER_01So, um, first on the personal note, I am sometimes in the news, and because you've got to sell papers, there's a lot of clickbaits.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_01So there was a headline about me about uh Amanda Holden, right? Um, we just had a conversation during the pandemic, and afterwards on her radio show, she said, Oh, I spoke to that comedian. I was a little worried about him because he lives alone, but he's fine. That was turned into Amanda Holden convinced, oh no, concerned in an um what not apostrophes, what you call them.
SPEAKER_02Um, that was the I know single quotes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yes, yes, quote marks Amanda Holden, quote unquote, concerned for comedian Deliso Chaponda, and people started worrying about me. And it's just the it's just the headline, or and another time it was comedian Deliso Choponda's X-rated past, nothing X-rated. I told jokes in a strip club once upon a time, as most comedians have. So a lot of it is the way in which headlines are made to seem, but then there's also some of the stories where you're the actual story stretches credibility, right? So, um, this winter Olympics, we had the craziest cheating scandal we've ever had. Um, some of the jokes you you're even like, how can I make this funnier than what's already happened?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I do have a list, I do have a list by the way, and the show, this is the first show I do which evolves with the week to week. Oh, yes. Because the oldest, so the second half of the this is a bit technical, but the second half of the show stays the same because that's the bigger talking about the bigger implications and the bigger kind of themes. But the first half is pretty much a topical show, yeah. So every week the oldest stories fall off and the newest stories replace them, right? So this week it has been, you know, anti what is Unite the Kingdom demonstration and uh Keir Starmer's uh possible ousting has replaced some stuff which was a story a few weeks ago.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. When I watch you on YouTube, Deliso, uh, and I don't know what you'll think of this, but you you sort of remind me of Richard Pryor, because Richard Pryor's the greatest compliment you can give a comedian. Yeah. Well, Richard Pryor was like yourself very intelligent, but his humour was based on knowledge. So everything you do, whether it's the Winter Olympics, whether you're talking about Africa in your home country, Malawi, or Britain, everything you do makes a point. But the point is made by the information, it's not made by you making a point. You let the knowledge uh talk for itself, speak for itself. And I could see that on that famous feature view and Britain's got talent, the judging panel, you were changing the way of thinking. I could see them thinking, I could see their brains turning over as you made uh those jokes. It was quite exceptional.
SPEAKER_01My guiding thing, I don't know if I always do, but the thing which I always try to hit is people who disagree with you should be able to laugh too. And I witnessed there's a very funny Australian comic, Steve Hughes, and he did a crowd, a lot of them were homophobic. He did jokes about like homosexuality, and they were laughing too. And I was like, that's really interesting. You can be so funny that so I have a joke about being tricked to move to the UK by a right-wing group who said immigrants are taking all the good jobs, all the good women. And I was like, that's what I'm looking for. And I always noted that even people who would be the far right would laugh. And I'm like, the logic, if it's good enough, you don't have to agree, you just laugh. And that's what I always aim for. But I mean, sometimes you've got to make a point, but I think be funny first.
SPEAKER_02Lisa, what is the function of news?
SPEAKER_01I think there are many, okay? On the lowest level, it's to keep us informed, bridge the gap between people, right? Because we're all kind of individuals, but it bridges the gap between but then there's also like loftier things. You've you know that thing of those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. I think it's like filling our heads with information allows us to understand the world. And that's also why I think it's dangerous when there's a lot of nonsense news, a lot of propaganda, a lot of um like people who are in a bubble. Like one of the things I did in writing this show is I infiltrated a Facebook group of extremely right-wing people, right? I created an avatar, I went in, and I just started like, you know, commenting and seeing all they said. And so much of their views are based on every day, they share articles about, you know, immigrants. Now, some of them are real. This is part of the problem. They'll have an article about a real criminal immigrant, followed by three articles, which you can't find any factual basis for. But the first real one makes people believe all of them are real. And so, and weird charts and statistics where you're like, who came up with this statistic? They did like a survey of the the show, isn't just about immigrant, it's just in my mind right now because of the stop uh United Kingdom was just now. But I'm just saying, like, a lot of the facts are totally bizarre. Like people believe that there's 80% foreigners. And I'm like, just look outside, it's not 80%. What? And so some of it came from that, but um a lot of it is also um just kind of seeing my nieces and nephews and young people and the way that they interact with news in a different way.
SPEAKER_02Tell me about that then, uh Delisa, because how do you sense that it's different? I mean, I agree with you, but tell me about that.
SPEAKER_01So, for example, if I see an article, my initial position is to read it like it's true, and then maybe if it's a bit suspicious, I'll be like, hey, is this real? I noticed the young people they begin with the premise this could be nonsense, right? And I was like, wow, they've grown up with so much AI-generated stuff and so much that they start on doubt, and that's fine with some stories, but sometimes it's sad. Like, I saw there was an image of a gymnast doing like triple pyramids in the air, some amazing thing, and all the comments were like, This is probably AI, this isn't real, and you're like, this person has trained for decades, and now the starting point is this probably isn't real.
SPEAKER_00But I think the problem with the media in Britain is that the the mainstream old-fashioned media in Britain is much sneakier than other companies' media, in that uh the lead what they don't do is context. So if you read any story by the uh old media in Britain, most of the facts, or even all the facts in the story are accurate. But what they do is they leave uh other facts out that would make you change your opinion about the point. So with Africa, the news always in Britain covers Africa as being corrupt in poverty and starvation in civil war. Now, all those bits are true, but as you know better than I do, Africa is definitely not all civil war, poverty and corruption.
SPEAKER_01And also, I feel like we are amateurs with the corruption in African countries because the numbers are way smaller. So, yes, there is way too much corruption in Africa, but um then I'll look in the UK and I'll see someone gave a um what's this like an account to someone for hundreds of millions? And I'm like, yes, there's corruption, but like you know, Malawian corruption is I want to get a passport and I slide over a hundred dollars. That is totally different to the kind of giant dealings and like if you look at all the men Mendelssohn scandal and stuff like that. I'm like, I can't find there are a few African countries, maybe, but I'm just saying, like for my home country, I can't find the equivalent. We've had scandals, but the amounts and the implications are nowhere near as big. Probably also because you know what billionaire is going to target Malawi, he's not gonna make a lot of money.
SPEAKER_00I know, I know. But could you settle one thing for me? Myself and Charles have interviewed so many comedians over so many years, and ones we've talked to performed on say Mock the Week, they will say to us, like, Well, what you see in TV, the half-hour show, it goes on for an hour and a half, and they edit it down. So I'm thinking like when it comes to how I got news for you, which I love, and the news quiz and we're there for which is brilliant. I'm thinking like, do these shows actually last six hours?
SPEAKER_01They do, usually around two hours, because a lot of it is improvisation and we are not all walking geniuses. You have to, it's an atmosphere where you try and you play, and you have faith that the jokes which don't work will be cut out. So you just throw everything at the wall, and in the course of around two hours, at least 30 minutes of hilarious stuff will happen, right? Um, some of them are a little different, some of them you get to write a bit, right? So, like the news quiz, you don't know what the questions will be, but you you know the stories. They'll say these are the things which might come up. While others, like, have I got news for you know nothing. You go in, and it's just because often it's what happened that day. So all of them have a different level of how much you're prepared. And um, some like QI, you can't prepare because it's bonkers. It's you could prepare all you like, and then it's about you know uh a little rodent. It's one of the most bizarre shows, but it's so much fun.
SPEAKER_00I always think that if you are funny, you will work on QI. You cannot be not funny and be in QI and get away with it because it is such a crazy program. You have to be a funny person to survive that show.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I'll admit that that one stressed me more than like the news shows.
SPEAKER_02Because the news shows more in flavor of QI than AI, let me tell you that.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Oh gosh, yes. AI is terrifying, it's terrifying, but it's also that thing is a tool which good things could come from, which I have to keep telling myself. But based on the human track record, I I just think the military and pornographers that they're the people who are going to use AI too much. Oh, it's it's a very strange time. But then I also wonder I am I a Luddite? Am I the new version of people being terrified when you know mechanization comes or when the cars arrived? Bring back horses, bring back horses, but different though.
SPEAKER_02I'm interested, Delisa, where you say that comedy is not about changing minds, um, it is about opening up starting conversations we're afraid to have. Now, I'm interested in the second part of that. My question is, why are we afraid to have those conversations?
SPEAKER_01So there are many different subjects which are hard to talk about without humor. Either it's something extremely divisive, yeah. So if you are going to go to a dinner party and bring up religion or bring up uh, you know, the trans issues, or bring up uh Israel-Palestine, this is going to be a fight. Yeah, and humor is one of the things where you can talk about the things people are uncomfortable with or very overly passionate about in a kind of cheeky way. So, for example, in Malawi, homosexuality was uh illegal and two men were arrested. This is quite a while by that archaic law has been removed. But when it was done, it was in a time you couldn't talk about it. I talked about it in a show there, and people laughed, and then you see them talking about later. Now you've not changed their mind, but it's very good for broaching discussions. I did a show um called Blah Blah Blackness some years ago about all the celebrities we'd found out horrible things about, from Bill Cosby to uh, you know, uh um Jim will fix it, to all these kinds of characters. But I did it in a way that I didn't choose which ones were evil and which ones weren't. And I would make jokes, and then the crowd would kind of debate which person was irredeemable and which person was forgivable. And you know what I mean? And it was wildly different because, yes, with someone like Bill Cosby, everyone agreed. But then when it would be someone like J.K. Rowling, people would be very passionate and angry. But humor will let you talk about it in a way that neither side is getting too angry. So I I definitely feel like humor is a tool for saying the uncomfortable, and even the first jokes we do when we're at school, it's about farting, which is a bit embarrassing. And then it's about you know I mean, it's about things which we don't like talking about, and it's just even little kids already are talking about the uncomfortable in humor.
SPEAKER_02It always strikes me, Delisa, that if comedians run the world, I think it would be a better place. Over to you. No, no, no.
SPEAKER_01This is the problem is I actually think that we need to get charm, charisma out of politics, right? Really? I wish that's a good idea. So Kirsty was trying. Yes, Kirstar was trying, but this is a problem is people want it to come in a pretty package and in a funny package. But I almost feel like it would be great if we voted for a list of opinions. This is what this person believes in this, this is what they believe in this, and we choose because so often it's the funny one or the charming one who gets voted. And look, I could be very persuasive snake oil salesman, but that doesn't mean that I know what I'm doing when it comes to running a country. I know how to make a good speech. So, yes, I've always been like if I wasn't a comedian, I'd be good at politics, I'd be a good preacher. Yes, right. But it's like just because you've got the skill doesn't mean you've got the knowledge. I want boring but ethical bureaucrats. That would be the perfect person. A really boring ethical bureaucrat.
SPEAKER_02Except that in Shakespeare, the fool was the wisest person, and the fool being the comedian.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I look, I agree with that to the point that um in analyzing society, humor is great, and humor needs to be um, you need to fully understand something to make fun of it. If you want to think about a new thing, I end up watching loads of documentaries and reading up on it. Just to get a one-liner that makes sense. You have to really be immersed. So I do think a lot of comedians to play around in something, you have to really understand it. But that's a different thing from being able to, if you were in charge, make the right decision. I can pull apart hypocrisy, but I don't know if I could be trusted to actually run anything.
SPEAKER_00I I would happily have Galizo in the cabinet, but I'm not sure about Canon and Ball.
SPEAKER_01This is it depends on the leave canon and ball to his own. Well, my father is a politician. Well, my father's a politician. He's currently the minister of foreign affairs in Malawi, right? And he's constantly trying to persuade me to go into politics because everyone knows me and people like me. And I'm like, no, just because I'm funny doesn't mean I I want one want to do this or would be good at it. But yes, uh, the good thing, though, now the electorate tough audience.
SPEAKER_00The elector are very tough audience, very tough audience.
SPEAKER_01Zelensky, though. Like that's always the example. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we thank you so much for joining us this evening. Oh, wait a minute, Charles, we need to mention DeLisa is playing. I was about to do that, so do please do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Little willing at Farsley near Leeds on Sunday, June the 7th.
SPEAKER_01Yes, please do come to Farsley. It's great. It's the second time I'm doing that venue.
SPEAKER_02It's absolutely lovely. Thank you so much for joining us this evening, Deliso. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for the chat. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for your time.
SPEAKER_00You were great, Deliso, absolutely brilliant.
SPEAKER_02My pleasure. Thank you so much. Cheers up. Bye Dad. Bye. Bye bye. Bye-bye. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye. So, Graham, uh, that was a sweet. It was very good. Yeah, yes. I mean, I mean, it's a fascinating topic. We obviously are news obsessed. That's the nature of us as journalists. But I think it's fascinating to hear that perspective actually of the of someone who's sort of found himself in the news and the way that's impacted uh upon him, but also then to reflect on this very crazy world of news of this 24-hour rolling news, which we've discussed before on the show, and and why that I think is having such a uh actually a damaging effect on news coverage. There's no time to pause and think and take things in any longer. That is one of the greatest problems of all.
SPEAKER_00It's constantly what's great about DeLisso is that when he you know analyzes that and turns it into humor, he isn't a propagandist. He doesn't tell his joke to get you to like agree with him straight away. He's quite sneaky himself. It like he he presents the information and lets you make your own mind up, and only if you're totally stupid will you fail to get the point.
SPEAKER_02That's a skill. I mean, to me, that's right. That is the craft of comedy.
SPEAKER_00He actually says, That's why I like Richard Pryor. Richard Pryor was funny because he's material, because he was very intelligent.
SPEAKER_02I like the point that DeLeaso said about you need the knowledge as a comedian as a starting point. So you better be good on your facts when you're going to start making these points. And he's right about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he'd make a great journalist, actually, DeLisso. Well, it's fascinating that it's probably too good for journalism.
SPEAKER_02Now, Graham, we've still got a little bit of time left this evening to get through some topics. Can we start with um Bone Temple, which we saw, of course, um, but it's performed underwhelmingly at cinemas. Yeah, probably not surprised at the news that that's done. So, this is the Danny Boyd and Alex Garland.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, but it got great reviews, it got better reviews.
SPEAKER_02Um, but maybe, you know, it may be that it's left field, and maybe that's part of the problem that people are not experimental enough in what they go to.
SPEAKER_00I think it's a couple of problems. I mean, it it was its budget was $63 million, and it's only made 58 so far, so it's not even broken even yet. Whereas 20 years later, the first in the trilogy was the same sort of budget, 60 million budget, but it made 151 million at the box office, which meant it was a huge hit. And bizarrely, I think this film's actually better than the first one. And that's because it's got two great actors facing off each other, facing off to each other throughout the film. Jack O'Connell playing Jimmy Crystal, a sort of like long-haired, shell-suited Jimmy Savile type cult leader, very violent. And then Dr. Kelson, played by the always brilliant Ray Fines, is the man of reason, the man who can like calm the mad zombie beasts because he's he's so clever, with the boy Spike in the middle of it. So it works as a clash of ideas, way better than the first one, which sort of rambled on like a sort of like road movie based around Spike trying to survive all the zombies. But the trouble is with the with the new one, even though it's technically better, and it's well directed by Nia De Costa, the youngish American film director who also made Candyman, the horror film remake. The problem is that Spike isn't really the protagonist in this film, and neither's Jack O'Connell, and neither's Ray Fines. So it's like bits coming together, occasionally then separating, and there's no thread. And because there's not a single protagonist, there's no, even though it looks great and it's got good ideas, there's no thrills, it's not a thriller because you can't side with Jack O'Connell, who's a complete maniac, violent person. And Ray Fines is a bit of a passive character, and the boy Spike is too small to be the uh protagonist. So there's no it's not a thriller. You're not waiting, you're not scared about what's going to happen next. So it's not gripping, whereas the first film was much more a traditional uh linear narrative, so it was much more mainstream. This film, bizarrely, although it's a better film, isn't as mainstream as the first one. That's what I was suggesting, Graham, but it's more of a cult piece, this one.
SPEAKER_03Mm-mm.
SPEAKER_00I think they'll have a great reputation reputation in the future, and it might be more popular in 20 years' time than it is now.
SPEAKER_02You can easily see that happening, which leads to your question: do they deserve the chance to complete the 28 years later trilogy? Well, I hope that it doesn't take them 28 years to do it, and I would I would answer in the positive.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, I mean, if there is a third one and they're still trying to raise the money, it'd be directed by Danny Boyle again, which is always good. And Killian Murphy is going to come back to play the lead character, and he's brilliant. And Alex Garden will write the script. So you've got to think the third one would be definitely worth seeing. So I hope they get the money to do it.
SPEAKER_02Well you you I my instinct is that that is that that will happen. And I'm different factors come into play as to why things don't quite catch on. And there's an and there's a novel novelty element, of course, of the first one, so and that kind of builds a status. Then some go and see the second and and don't enjoy it as much, and therefore the word they put out is well, no, I didn't enjoy it as much. So you don't get that you don't you don't get that stimulus of curiosity that the first one had. That in its way can lead to audiences not coming to a show.
SPEAKER_00I think they should have pushed the scene where Ray Fines is doing this mad dance to Iron Maiden's number the beast because it's absolutely classic scene. It's hilarious. You never thought you'd see Ray Fines doing that, and that's the scene that should have been highlighted and pushed in advertising, I think. Absolutely absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, I mean it's it's never too late, Graham. This you know, the cult status can come with this as well. So I'm gonna confidently predict that 28 years later we'll have its trilogy. Um we've had uh well, we've had 28 days later, 28 years later. What is it next?
SPEAKER_00I think this will be the sixth. If they make the third in the trilogy, that'll be the sixth film altogether. Yeah, since 28 days later was made, you know, more than 20 years ago, yeah, and was an unexpected huge hit. I mean, let's face it, that these are the only films that make zombi they make zombies look look like it's worth watching. Like the thing about 28 Years Later or 20 Days Later by Garland and Boyle and producer Andrew McDonald is that they make the post-apocalypse into a place that's worth thinking about. Usually it's just zombies killing people, but there's a bit of brain and a bit of heart in these movies. Was it Sean? Was it Sean's Dead? That was the one, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_02What's that? Well, Sean Sean's Dead was that. Was that the zombie one?
SPEAKER_00Well, not not button and boy, it wasn't.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, but was that the Simon Pegg one?
SPEAKER_00What was it called? Yeah, the Simon Pegg one. That that was a comedy, and it was very enjoyable. That was good, a very traditional film.
SPEAKER_02There's a lot, there's a lot of like in those zombies.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, they can work as movies, that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00Well, you can be entertaining, but 20 years later, 20 years later, aspires to some sort of artistic merit. I realize that point being made.
SPEAKER_02You're right, yes. So uh well, uh let's see. Let's see what happens with that. Now, Graham, um, many lit many literature festivals take place. We obviously we can mention the crime festival in Harriet. Um, we have a York literature festival here here where I am. Um, the one that you're referring to is Leeds Literature Festival returning, but you question whether are there too many of these things? I would argue you can never have too much of a good thing as long as you publicize it well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the Leeds Fest is happening shortly, Saturday, 6th of June, all the way through to Sunday, 14th of June. And it's a community interest company and it involves lots of different venues, so it's a really worthy event. And it's got a reasonable cast, it's got John Hegley, the poet, presenting new and selected potatoes. It's got an award-winning poet called Kim Moore, and she's got a new collection, The House of Broken Things. It's got a spoken word performer and theatre maker, Naomi Wood. So it's got interesting things, and it's got sadly Vince Cable, the ex-Lib Dem cabinet minister under Cameron in the early tens, discussing the shifting global power and eclipsing the West. And I wouldn't trust Vince Cable to talk about anything because when he was in the cabinet, he achieved he was always a great speaker, but he achieved diddly squad. So I'm not getting him seriously. But but you've also got the Ilka Literature Festival, which is very big, you've got the Whitby Literature Festival, which is getting bigger each year at Whitby, and you've got the Harrogate one, you've got the Literature Festival in October, and you've got Thiex and his Crime Writing Festival in July in Harrogate. And it's almost like we're awash in authors visiting Yorkshire to talk about their books. And I'm thinking, like, well, where's this going? I mean, is it going to turn to like a Leeds festival for literature? Is it going to be a huge outdoor festival at some point?
SPEAKER_02No, no, I don't think it would what people like about literature festivals, I think, is the chance to talk to authors. I think it's as simple as that. Get signed copies, meet them, listen to them, talking about their books, getting insights. They're very convivial events. And we know this from the Edinburgh, the Edinburgh version as well, which is a wonderful book festival.
SPEAKER_00Edinburgh, yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Graham, I absolutely passionately believe in these things. Um, and I think the more diverse the book festivals, the better. And um, look, it's a it's a common thing to do, is reading. It's not buying.
SPEAKER_00That's a bit obvious, Charles.
SPEAKER_02But that's why having book festivals is actually an obvious thing to do.
SPEAKER_00Perhaps it's me, it's part of the whole trend towards experiences. So people don't buy as many records, but they do go to big arena gigs. And book sales aren't actually going up, but the appetite for the experience of being the same room as the author, yeah, talking directly to the author, is popular.
SPEAKER_02And and here in York we have the Festival of Ideas coming up, and that again, plenty of authors will be taking part in that. Uh I take the point that maybe book sales aren't you know aren't as high as they they ever have been. I I would still argue in a city like York, where we are going to have more book, more, more, more bookshops than in all the years that I've been working in this city. We're going to have the maximum number in the world. Are chopping and co ever opening in York?
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, yes, yeah. For sure, for is there opening date? Has that been announced?
SPEAKER_02Uh no, well, so they're they're working on the building at the moment. There is action within. I thought it was supposed to happen last year, though. Yeah, but it got delayed because the council offices had one view and the council has overruled the officers and said, no, this is this is gonna happen. Lucius Books has now completed its move in uh so um on on Micklegate. That has moved from one end of Mickelgate into much bigger premises that Ken Spelman's used to be in. We have the criminally good bookshops, uh, we have the poetry poet poetry in well, I think it's called Poetry and Potion. Maybe it's poetry in motion. Anyway, basically it's poetry and potions. That's opened in in York. We have plenty of secondhand bookshops in York, and uh, I I so I I give I I surrender channels. Can you give in here, Brad? Because I I would argue that um I think there's actually an appetite, a real appetite for these things.
SPEAKER_01You've been listening to the podcast Two Big Egos in a Small Cum.
SPEAKER_02Your hosts were Gwynn Chalmers and Charles Hutchinson. This was a Baltic sub-production.